Are Ohio Turnpike users suddenly at risk of identity theft?: Today in Ohio

Betty Q. Hixson

CLEVELAND, Ohio — Ohio Turnpike and Infrastructure Commission officials expressed concern this week about hiring contractors outside the United States — including the turnpike’s toll-collection contractor, which was recently acquired by a company based in Singapore.

We’re discussing that terrifying potential for a security breach, on Today in Ohio.

Listen online here. See the automated transcript at the bottom of the post.

Editor Chris Quinn hosts our daily half-hour news podcast, with editorial board member Lisa Garvin and reporter Courtney Astolfi.

You’ve been sending Chris lots of thoughts and suggestions on our from-the-newsroom text account, in which he shares what we’re thinking about at You can sign up for free by sending a text to 216-868-4802.

Here are the questions we’re answering today:

Should users of the Ohio Turnpike be worried about identity theft now that the company collecting all of the credit card and EZ Pass payments has been sold to a company in Singapore?

What is one Cuyahoga County councilman proposing to force a new jail on to a toxic site, now that members of the Justice siting committee are balking at that plan?

What’s the reaction by Cleveland travelers to the end of the mask mandate on air travel, and did RTA drop its mask mandate as fast as the airlines did?

When planners announced a while back that they would include racial equity as a measure in transportation projects, we wondered how they might do that. Now, they have come up with an innovative tool. How does it work?

Mayfield Heights is a thriving suburb, so why is a WalMart closing its huge store on S-O-M Center Road at Mayfield Road?

Today’s the day federal judges set as a deadline for Ohio to figure out its legislative maps, so what has been happening this week as the deadline approaches?

A shocker out of Pepper Pike. What is Rabbi Stephen Weiss of the B’nai Jeshurun synagogue accused of?

And in another case of a trusted adult working to seduce children, how much time will a former Mayfield Heights teacher spend in prison for collecting lewd pictures of children, including his former students?

Finally, the second-generation leader of Pierre’s Ice Cream chatted with Sean McDonnell about the company and her decision to sell. What were some highlights?

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Read the automated transcript below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it contains many errors and misspellings

Chris: [00:00:00] I’m betting a lot of people who listen to this podcast, use the Ohio turnpike with some regularity and there’s some questionable stuff going on there. It’s something we’ll be talking about on this episode of today in Ohio, the news podcast discussion from and the plain dealer. I’m Chris Quinn here with colleagues at Lisa Garvin and Courtney Staffie it’s Wednesday happy hump day.

Lisa: Yay waiting for that warm weekend.

Chris: Okay. I keep waiting for the warm weather, but it keeps being in the thirties who get it. It’s almost may. Well, let’s get to the turnpike. Should users of the Ohio turnpike be worried about identity theft. Now that the company collecting all of the credit card and easy pass payments has been sold to a company in Singapore.

Lisa, this is concerning given how badly identified the theft has happened in Ohio. With Ohio departments like the unemployment office. Now we’re shipping all the collections to a [00:01:00] company in Singapore.

Lisa: That’s correct. TransCore which maintains the toll collection and customer services operations on the turnpike and has done so since 1975 was sold earlier this year to Singapore technologies engineering for $2.6 billion.

That sale was finalized last month. So, and TransCore has a current contract with the turnpike through 22. But president of TransCore Tracy, mark says there’s a national security agreement that they signed with with this, the sale, uh, that there’s a ban on access to customer data by overseas companies.

And nothing is sourced outside of the USA. Any violations of this national agreement could mean fine. Equal to the purchase, which is $2.6 billion. However, on the other hand, Ohio turnpike officials who met earlier this week were surprised by the sale and concerned. They’re checking to see whether TransCore was required to [00:02:00] notify that the commission of the sale, because they were obviously surprised by it.

Chris: Yeah. I, I have a hard time seeing how a company has a firewall within itself. I mean, it just has that work if you’re, if you’re the master company and this is one of your subsidiary. How do you set it up so that you can’t look at what’s going on? I think it’s, I’m glad that the turnpike commissioners were alerted to this.

Um, this does seem like it’s a risk. I’m a regular turnpike user Courtney. I think you said you were on the turnpike in a big traffic jam over the weekend, and you don’t want to think of your credit card information and your, if you’re an easy pass, your address and all that stuff floating around. Place that the us has no say over no protection.

Lisa: And, you know, hackers look for databases like this. This would be like a goldmine to them. And any determined hacker, as we know, can access information. If they want to. Also on the foreign company is on the Ohio turnpike, front [00:03:00] apple, green USA, welcome centers. They have an agreement to operate to service Plaza concessions at great lakes and Towpath, but they were denied because they’re based in Ireland.


Chris: I mean, I can’t imagine that the turnpike would have approved the contract with a Singapore based company. It’s just, did they put a clause in to their contract that says it must be us based? It sounds like they’re looking at their options. The last thing you want is for everybody who’s riding on the turnpike to cancel their, their credit card use and start paying with cash again.

I mean, that would make even longer lines.

Leila: Yes,

Lisa: absolutely. But I, it seems like they’re kind of making a patriotic statement or at least Jerry Herby, who is the, the, uh, chair of the tr the.

Thank you. He said, quote, that the flag is being flown pretty loudly here in Ohio. So it sounds like they’re taking a stand for [00:04:00] America.

Chris: Well, and this company does like 80% of these collections across the nation. Uh, it pretty much has the monopoly on the collections, although it sounds like there’s another company out there.

At least maybe we could work with them. We’ll have to follow this up. It’s today in Ohio. What is one Cuyahoga county Councilman proposing to force a new jail onto a toxic site. Now that members of the justice citing committee are balking at that plan. Courtney, this came about because the public defender who represents many of the people in the jail is concerned about having them sleep at a site that was so toxic 40 years ago, the state wouldn’t build a prison there.

The pushback that that resulted from that is alarm.

Leila: Well, uh, county Councilman Mike Gallagher came out after, after the public defender raised those concerns saying let’s just, let’s just potentially scrap the steering committee. We’ve set up to decide the fate of the jail. And as the county [00:05:00] county council has the final say on this anyway.

So he’s saying to heck with this steering committee group, that includes the public defender prosecutor top judge, and let’s move forward on our own. We have a duty to take care of inmates. It’s our decision. Anyway. Let’s dissolve this.

Chris: What what’s interesting is I I’d be surprised if the county council in the face of the prosecutor, the public defender, the judges, and other members of this committee saying, hold on, hold on, hold on.

We didn’t know about 40 years ago, we didn’t know that this was so toxic. It wouldn’t put a prison there. We don’t really know what’s on this site. Let’s hit the brakes. Let’s make sure before we go down this road, I mean, They’re looking out for the safety of the prisoners and I get it. The jail we have now is not a great place for safety, but the answer isn’t to build another unsafe jail.

What’s weird to me is they have an easy option. There’s a site in Garfield Heights. That’s clean Garfield Heights wants them. It’s like, why don’t you just [00:06:00] switch and go there. The other thing that’s unsaid, you know, Jeff Applebom is the contractor on this thing and he knows. After this year, we’re going to have a new county executive.

And the new county executive is very likely to not want to work with him because they’ve said so. So he’s trying to get this thing locked in. So he gets paid. That’s not a good reason to move forward. Well,

Leila: you know what else is left unsaid here? You know, Colin Sweeney. Didn’t include this in his letter.

But he did tell, you know, that he prosecutor Michael Maylee and, you know, top administrative judge at the common police court. Brendan chin had a private meeting with county council, president PIR, Brunel Jones earlier this month. And they talked over with Jones about whether moving forward with the jail would hinder the county’s ability to pay for their new digs, a new court house.

So that wasn’t mentioned in the, in the letter, there are things at play here that. That are not being [00:07:00] said, you know, outwardly at the steering committee.

Chris: Yeah. I believe that the judges and Mike O’Malley, they’re worried that there’ll be no money left to build the courthouse, which is in very, very bad shape.

It has been for years. And so they were leveraging some of this controversy for that. The problem is that nobody at the county knew. About what happened 40 years ago until we reported it. And that, that raises serious questions about their due diligence. I don’t understand why Gallagher is brushing that aside.

It’s legitimate to be concerned about where these people will be sleeping the show. I’m sure doesn’t want to have his guards working on a toxic site either. They’re there day after day after day, and we’re not talking about a year’s delay. All they’re they’re saying is let’s not rush to this site yet.

Let’s do some testing. Let’s find out what’s there let’s find out if it can be remediated, there was talk in one of their meetings about putting in one of [00:08:00] those barriers. Like you’re doing landfill. Well, that’s not permanent. Those things wear out. So what happens in 30 years? Do we have toxins rising to the surface, surprising the back and forth that’s going on here between members of the citing committee, but to just throw away the siting committee, because you don’t like where it’s headed.

Seems like a radical decision here.

Leila: When I was doing some reporting on this a couple of weeks ago, the chief civil prosecutor under Michael Mann. Who’s been working with environmental consultants who are already starting to look at the toxicity of the site and what can be done to remediate it. Dave Lambert told me any site can be remediated to make it safe.

It’s just a matter of how much money and how much money that’s spent here is ultimately the purview of county council. Not the prosecutors.

Chris: Anytime much time, you know, back in the 40 years ago, they said it would take three years to clean the site. How long would it take to do it this time? So it’s all the unknowns that are out there, which is why I think some of the citing [00:09:00] committee members, even, I think Blaine Griffin is, is back on his heels going, whoa, whoa, what are we doing?

So we’ll have to see he’s on the committee as well. You’re listening to today in Ohio. What’s the reaction by Cleveland travelers to the end of the mask mandate on air travel and did RTA drop its mask mandate as fast as the airlines did.

Lisa: Most people didn’t waste any time in the wake of federal judge, there was a federal judge in Florida that overturned the public transportation mask mandate.

And almost immediately after that ruling services across Cleveland and the nation were lifted. I mean, all major airlines immediately lifted their mask. Mandate Hopkins no longer has one Cleveland RTA still recommends. But they did lift the mandate also lake Tran and Akron. Metro RTAs did the same thing, but a Dr.

Keith Armitage, who’s a travel medicine expert with university. Hospitals said that high-risk travelers should still [00:10:00] wear N 95 in kn 95 mask. He felt like lifting them in. Kind of jumps the gun. That’s a quote from him, but he said, we’re getting close. So, you know, our reporters talk to several passengers, varying responses.

Some people said they’re going to keep the mask on. They don’t feel safe in a crowded airplane and they might, you know, be, uh, you know, Immunocompromised issues and others were like thrilled. They’re like, thank God we can take off the mask and breathe again. What threw

Chris: me about this is the airline saying we have such good filtration in our planes.

That there’s not a problem when pretty much every story I’ve ever read about the air in planes is it’s not really that well filtered, I guess we’re at a point where it’s really personal choice. If you feel. You need to wear a mask. You’ll wear a mask. If you don’t want to wear a mask, you won’t wear a mask.

There’s there’s, there’s still people saying you should wear a mask to protect others, but the N 95 masks that kn 95 mask protect the wear. If you don’t want to breathe. [00:11:00] Co passengers are exhaling. That’s the way to avoid it. Um, it was, and the RTA did the same thing, but they’re recommending right mask

Lisa: squares.

Yes. Yes. And actually I saw a, you know, a bus come down Mayfield the other day and you know, they have the little. You know, uh, display across the front, it said masks recommended. So they’re still doing that. And Hopkins airport director, Robert Kennedy kind of breathed a sigh of relief because he said the mandate did result in some very hostile encounters, you know, when they were trying to enforce the mandate.

So that takes the enforcement issue out of their hands. Yeah. Yeah. It’ll

Chris: be interesting to see if the federal government appeals the decision. Uh, you know, this was done by one judge in Florida for the whole country, um, or whether they just let it stand because people are done with the mandates. Anyway, you are listening to today in Ohio.

When planners announced a while back that they would include racial equity as a measure in transportation projects. We wondered how they might do [00:12:00] that. Now they’ve come up with an innovative tool. Courtney, I’m going to leave it to you to explain how it

Leila: works. Yeah. This is pretty nifty. So a group of Northeast Ohio nonprofits, including TMAO and the fund for economic future have created this in partnership with others have created this online tool that companies can use when they’re figuring out where to locate, you know, new offices, new factories, other locations, and what this online tool offers are our measures of, of racial equity and carbon emissions, environmental related stuff.

So it basically looks at. You know, if the goal is to hire a more racially ethnically diverse workforce, the way to do that is to put your new location as close as you can to that workforce. So this tool lets you kind of met out where those folks are in relation to where you want to locate. And then also what the commute needs are for that workforce.

Is this going to ratchet up emissions [00:13:00] require a 30 minute drive by car, for example, that maybe is a little less accessible. To, to folks of different groups. Um, you know, it, it lets people kind of tweak and play with locations to make sure that their locations coincide with needs of the workforce and commute needs.

Chris: So each address you put in, you get a numeric rating of, of its equity rating. Which will be fascinating, right? If, when people come in for approval of projects and, and they’re, the developers are being looked at for this, I would imagine there’ll be some serious quibbling about the way they come up with the measurement.

Leila: Sure. And, and I’m sure it’s just it, you know, they’re saying it’s a tool. They’re not saying it’s the end all be all. But yeah, the devil is probably in the details.

Chris: Uh, it’s really cool that they’ve come up [00:14:00] with the way to actually measure it. You can always change parameters and play around, but if I’m a developer that ends up in a low score, I’m going to do everything I can right there to torpedo this system.

So it’ll be interesting to watch as this gets battle-hardened in the approval process, but I think. Just blown away that they came up with a seemingly logical system for measuring it. Uh, Steve led has a story about it on It’s worth reading it’s today in Ohio Mayfield Heights is a thriving suburb, Lisa.

So why is a Walmart closing its huge store at som center road and Mayfield road. This was one of the highest interest or the highest interest story on our website yesterday. Lots of people were trying to figure out what’s going on with Walmart.

Lisa: Yeah. And there was a lot of action on Facebook and nextdoor and other social media platforms as well.

This is more or less my neighborhood. Um, the Walmart it’s 65 [00:15:00] 94 Mayfield, which is right at som center road. We’ll be closing on May 20th. Um, this is the second store in Ohio to be closed there’s once in Cincinnati that we’ll be closing this week, but the reason that was given actually they called Mayfield Heights.

Mayor Anthony DiCicco. I hope I’m not pronouncing his name wrong, but he said, he found out yesterday morning, a Walmart representative called him and said, Hey, you know, the store is underperforming financially. We’re going to close it next month. But DiCicco says, well, you know, the store is pretty robust and it’s in a very prominent location.

I mean, it’s right off of 2 71. And the issue with him with the mayor, he says, you know, These big box stores when they close, they’re really hard to read, lease for anything other than another big box store. And yeah, I mean, it’s busy all the time, although I wouldn’t say it’s huge. There’s actually a bigger one in university Heights, it a on Warrensville.

So, uh, you know, it’s not like. People will not have a Walmart in the area, but [00:16:00] yeah, the mayor was surprised. He said, how could it be underperforming? It’s busy all the time, which I can attest

Chris: it is. Yeah. I, I was surprised by this because whenever I’ve been by there, it’s crowded. I wonder if Mayfield Heights and.

People that live in that vicinity are more target shoppers because the target is right around the corner from that. And that they just are getting the business. But this is the problem with Walmart. There’s one in Cleveland Heights that closed when they opened the one that you mentioned in Warrensville wrote Hankinson south Euclid.

When it’s empty, it’s just a Hawking dinosaur of a building that has no use. And so it takes up an enormous amount of space. That’s one of the primest corner. In Northeast, Ohio, som center and Mayfield roads. And w what are you going to do? Tear it down to, to build something that’s more amenable. I mean, they’re


Chris: to be saddled with something that.

It was empty for a long time

Lisa: for a while. And that’s what the mayor’s [00:17:00] worried about. And, you know, they just tore down the old may land shopping center, further west on Mayfield. And they’re redeveloping that looking for tenants for that huge piece of property. So, you know, they’re trying to market that, that property and then they’ll have to market the Walmart property.

So yeah, he’s a little bit concerned.

Chris: Yeah, I, that it was a shocker and clearly people were talking about it. What was the buzz on social media where people upset.

Lisa: Uh, very upset. And first it started as a rumor. And, you know, people were saying that they couldn’t figure out why it was closed or being closed because I said, it’s always busy.

It’s always busy. But the rumor was is what was the rumor? I don’t remember, but it wasn’t about underperformance. Uh, I don’t remember what it was, but yeah, a lot of talk on next door

Chris: and Facebook. All right. You’re listening to today. Today is the day federal judges set as a deadline for Ohio to figure out its legislative maps, which it has not done.

So what has been happening this week as the deadline approaches? Courtney, Andrew, Dubai’s put together a [00:18:00] story to let people know where things stand as the deadline approaches. Yep.

Leila: And as Andrew reported not much has been happening. So the federal court gave the redistricting commission until today.

What it said was a drop dead date. Um, after which, you know, it might intervene and start making decisions about how legislative races are going to be handled this year. And, um, in the meantime, The, the Republicans haven’t sat down to convene with the redistricting commission since the Ohio Supreme court last week rejected proposed maps for the fourth time.

So Andrew reports that this an inactivity by the Republicans on the redistricting commission, it signals that they’re putting to the federal court. They want the federal court here to decide this for them. But the Ohio Supreme court has urged the federal court not to do

Lisa: that.

Chris: Right. We’d Bob Higgs has a story would probably publish today.

That looks at the unusual nature of the Supreme [00:19:00] court opinion in which it laid out all the reasons the federal court really doesn’t have jurisdiction or reason to interfere. They, they, and if the judges at the federal court accepted it, they’d be rewarding. The Republicans for failing to do their job.

I’m a little bit surprised that the Ohio Supreme court is not moving a little faster on its Kentucky. Part of this, where they’ve asked the Republicans to show cause why they shouldn’t be held in contempt for defying the court defying the constitution, they opinion last week, made it clear. Just get back to where you were.

You were almost there and they’ve done nothing. I mean, they’re clearly you’re saying yet, we’re not listening to you, Ohio Supreme court. We’re counting on the federal judges. It’s really kind of a.

Leila: Yeah. And, and, and the independent Matt Maper makers that were brought in for this last round of Matt, maybe Matt meet and king, um, they said they’re available.

They’re ready to get back to work, but, but the redistrict commission hasn’t called them back into to wrap that process.

Chris: [00:20:00] Yeah. You know, Mike DeWine has been out with COVID, but the others could clearly have called the meeting. They’re there. This is their hail Mary play. It. It’ll be interesting to see whether the federal judges reward the misbehavior, or if they say you ought to be listening to your highest Supreme court and get this done, we’ll be talking about it tomorrow on today in Ohio.

I shocker at a pepper pike. What is rabbi Stephen Weiss of the benign gesture run synagogue accused of Lisa. This was another story on our site yesterday that went like wildfire. People were surprised that.

Lisa: 60 year old rabbi, Stephen Weiss was arrested Monday in an undercover sting operation. He thought he was setting up a meeting with a 15 year old boy, but it turned out it was the Ohio internet crimes against children task force.

He was talking to, so he was arrested. Went for the meetup. Uh, he is charged with unlawful sexual conduct with a minor [00:21:00] and importuning and possession of criminal tools. He’s currently free on $50,000 bond and wearing an ankle monitor. Um, our reporters looked at, you know, Website, you know, there was a page about him on the, the website.

He was the former president of United and United synagogue, youth regional chapter also established camp Ramah summer camp for Jewish children. So little concerning there, he used social media to find this 15 year old boy and a meet you agreed to meet with. Or the agents, uh, for sex that later that

Chris: day.

Yeah, I, uh, this one was a surprise that we, we we’ve often reported about these kinds of things with the Catholic church, and that doesn’t seem to arise as much in, you know, Religions, but this, this guy is well known. I mean, he’s, he’s somebody that I think a lot of people on the east side really looked up to and what a shock [00:22:00] that, that he’s accused us, of course, innocent till proven guilty, but looks bad for him.

Lisa: Right. And, you know, he was a champion for Jewish children. He created a lot of groups. He was an advocate for Jewish children and, you know, and in the light of this arrest, that

Chris: doesn’t look right. That’s what predators do. They arranged to be involved with children because it sets up easy prey for them.

But wow. What a, that’s a big one. It is today in Ohio, we have another case of an adult using a position to take advantage of children. Courtney, how much time will a former Mayfield Heights teachers spend in prison for collecting lewd pictures of children, including some former students?

Leila: Yeah, a former teacher, Daniel, Carlson’s going to prison for 10 years with the possibility of, you know, another three and a half years.

If he’s considered still a threat, this is a really, really unsettling case. So [00:23:00] Carson used fake social media. Threads and money to coerce kids into sending him nude photographs. You know, investigators eventually found that there were 23 victims and eight between the ages of 14 and 17. He’s already pleaded guilty to extortion, compelling prostitution tampering with evidence and child pornography charges.

And you know, these victims, it sounds like were extraordinarily impacted by, by what he did. One girl we learned in court attempted to do it.

Chris: Yeah, this, this is very similar to that Catholic priest case on the, on the west side, the guy who, when he was in prison, he killed himself recently where he, he used all his Wiles to get the kids, to send pictures and increasingly, um, it stages of nudity, I guess.

And then when the kids. I said they didn’t want to do it anymore. He threatened to publish the photos online, tagging them. So the [00:24:00] world would know that he had done it, which let’s face it for a kid that is about as traumatic as it can be. It’s it’s the height of cruelty. He, and then he also offered one time.

$15,000 to have sex with him. She said, no. How did the case crumble? How did this guy get caught? Yeah, so

Leila: it looks like he sent one of the pictures. He sent back to one of the victims, had his face on it. She recognized him. He begged her not to out him. And then a parent came forward saying this was going on.

And in the case, on-ramp for.

Chris: Yeah. I mean, actually 10 years seems short and I’ll be surprised if the parole commission lets them out in 13. Plus I think you said he has to register as a sex offender pretty much for the rest of his natural days. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Astounding case of an adult using their position.

Think about it. We’re talking about it for the podcast. This is somebody that sees children every day, sees what they’re going through as they grow up and instead [00:25:00] of working to make their lives better, he’s a predator taking advantage of them. Just a special place in hell kind of crime you’re listening to today.

Finally the second generation leader of peers, ice cream, chatted with Sean McDonnell about the company and her decision to sell it. What are some of the highlights? Lisa? I know you’re a fan of Pierre’s ice cream,

Lisa: Shelly Roth. What an interesting story. I mean, she, you know, she. In New York city in the 1970s, working with Atlantic records, marketing department, what a great job anyone would have loved to have had that job.

But her dad was Sol Roth, asked her to come home to Cleveland, to help run, and then eventually own peers, which she eventually did in 1979. And then in 1991, she took over as CEO, as we reported on this podcast last week, heres has been sold to. Group called Ohio processors. [00:26:00] And Shelley Roth was very concerned about the family legacy and the Pierre’s brand legacy.

So she picked Ohio processors. The owners are the Smith family, and she says that they understand core values and supporting workers and producing high quality products. So, you know, and she said when she took over as CEO and when she came to help run in the business, Eighties. That was very rare for a woman to succeed.

You know, a male owner of a business. Usually it was a son they passed it on to, or, or a son in law. So here she is in the early eighties, you know, running a company and then taking over a CEO. And she said she was glad that her dad had the courage and confidence to let his daughter learn the business at a time when it was rare for women to learn how to run a business.

Chris: You think about it, you know, 30 years ago. She’s right. There were very few women in leadership positions in corporate America. Uh, and she’s been [00:27:00] running that company now for three decades in Cleveland. Um, it’s not somebody. We’ve talked a lot about over the years in terms of Cleveland leadership, but here she was running this company for all that time.

And I imagine there were some challenges in those early years because it was such a, a male centric business world.

Lisa: Right. You know, and she oversaw the move of the current. Current factory location is at east 65th and Euclid that happened in 2011. So she oversaw that and Pierre’s just, FYI is one of the few regional ice cream makers left in the USA and Roth really wanted that legacy to continue.

She also made a conscious decision to stay in Midtown Cleveland when they had decided to build the factory on the east side. So she’s her, heart’s in Cleveland and we love her for. The the,

Chris: that was interesting to see what she was doing before she came back working for a record company. I don’t remember.

Did the story say w w which some of the artists [00:28:00] that she was involved in.

Lisa: Yes it did. And I re I didn’t write them down, but they were all the big artists of the early seventies. I mean, wow. That’s like the perfect job for somebody who loves music and, you know, loves to work with the musicians and for her to leave that at her father’s insistence to come back to little old Cleveland, to run an ice cream company.

It’s pretty

Chris: remarkable. Ultimately, we did get the rock and roll hall of fame during her time here. So she’s still. Or a foot in the door of the music industry. Good story. Check it out. Sean McDonald wrote it. It’s on It’ll be in the plain dealer the next few days. I don’t think it’s been published yet.

You always sending to today in Ohio and that does it for a Wednesday conversation. Thanks Courtney. Thanks Lisa. Thank you for listening to this podcast. We’ll be back with another discussion on Thursday..

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